The Gloves Are Coming Off Again

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The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Feb 22, 2006, 5:36am

I've been patient. I have tried to be reasonable. I have quietly undergone the tedious task of documenting the reality of what changes occured in the makeup of jet emissions to cause persistant chemical trails and the obligatory phony kloud cover that results from the seeding of the atmosphere with these sulfate aerosols.

And just as quietly, the Program appeared to all but die off during the last year (and with it, almost all attention paid to it by the so-called 'alternative' corporate media).

As anyone on the West Coast can surely tell you, the party has been over for the last few weeks and we are once again being treated to white-out conditions and bizarre weather patterns on an almost daily basis.

And with this return, a renewed interest by the larger alternative players in re-enforcing a lot of misinformation and outright absurdities, coupled with an all-to-familiar lack of research or even intelligent commentary on the subject.

I no longer care if this is the result of shoddy-to-nonexistant journalistic standards or something perhaps a bit more sinister. I have tasted the sweet smell of success and blue skies... and I will not be denied.

Not for Jeff Rense (who posted the following blatant disinformation) Not for his partner Alex Jones (who originally published it)...and certainly not for the pitiful wretch that authored this masterful blend of idiotic ranting and mind-blowing stupidity.

Welcome to Fight Club, Hazel McKinlay:

[image]

That's her camera right. (Either her or the drummer from Iron Maiden.. though I'm fairly certain that's not Bruce Dickinson on the left). Enough of the good-natured ribbing. Let's see what what has your long-suffering admin sacrficing desperately-needed sleep over...

Quote:

The aerosols emitted from (remote control) jets criss-crossing the sky, day and night, are composed of polymers fibres, aluminium and barium which is necessary to increase the efficacy of HAARP

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/220206climatechange.htm

Ignorance is no longer an excuse for disinforming the masses with regards to aersol seeding, as our little glamour queen is about to find out.

If you want to rant and rave about chemtrails being designed to kill of the 'useless eaters', so be it. After reading the nonsense about these planes being remote controlled, I must admit that forcibly removing the intellectually challenged and demonstrably useless seems like a noble endeavor compared to the more obvious and well-documented probabilites. And after reading your unequivocal explanation of the active ingredients in these persistant chemical trails (none of which would account for said persistance) I can honstly say that if the Program would rid us people stupid enough to state the impossible as fact I'd be singing it's praises.

Safe to say that the photos of commercial airliners you lifted from airliners.net for your article (or was it Alex's brilliant idea ?), while striking examples of sulfate-based aersol seeding, do not depict piltoless drones flying around empty airliners. I've seen some off-the-wall stuff being foisted by the fringe element, but what must be at least several hundred aircraft worldwide being flown remote control (for no apparent reason or imaginable benefit) takes the tinfoil hat.

You are either the stupidest human being on the internet, or you are doing a remarkable impersonation of her (for reasons that are as disturbingly obvious as the nose on your face).

I'm not playing around here anymore. It 's not the TPTB/NWO/ Illuminati Elite's fault that we are stupid enough to be misled by people that crawled out of the viscous scum at the bottom of the gene pool. It's our fault. And moreover, it's my fault for not immediatley crucifying anyone foolish enough to continue to spread this crap at the expense of the well-documented and painstakingly researched truth.

I better start seeing some #^%dammned hard research from people like Alex Jones on this, for starters. If he can bring in firearms experts to re-create Dick Cheney's hunting mishaps with half-a-dozen loads of ammuntion, he can damn well present the now readily available hard evidence of what is causing the CT phenomena.

The question one has to inevitably ask one's self is: why in the name of christ is this not being done? Whay are we treated to scientific analysis fit for a courtroom when it comes to utterly meaningless hunting accidents (on the one hand) and cerebral projectile vomit when it comes to one of the most far-reaching and potentially disatourous clandestine projects in the history of the species?

I am no longer willing to run on the assumption this sad state of affairs is occurring because of lazyness or stupidity. I strongly suggest those propigating these absurdites get demonstrably smarter and eagerly motivated, because I'm just getting warmed up here.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by amber on Feb 22, 2006, 9:33pm

How about writing a piece for Rense or Prison Planet to put the record straight? After you've calmed down of course?

Also as new people start exploring the topic, I think it would be a good idea to have a CT's 101 FAQ type of thing as a permanently pinned post. Just something simple and to the point.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Feb 23, 2006, 2:48am

I am calm (you should have seen the original and unedited first draft).

You're right about either an article or CT FAQ, and at the time I was considering doing this, Wayne put together Strategies Against Climate Change ..which I felt served and identical purpose and was extrememly well-done. I encouraged Wayne to submit the article, and it did in fact run on several of the larger sites like Rense.

Of course, I was hoping that a well-documented and researched article might turn a few heads and wet the appetites of the editors and webmasters of these sites, but they seem far more interested in sensationalistic rants than in any reality-based attempts at working the problem.

We have an entire forum here, with an entire section dedicated to documententation of the geoengineering debacle (and who and what is responsible for it). There are several other websites that have done excellent work in this regard and the general concensus has been agreement on this being the primary objective of the program (and it has been for years).

Somebody, somewhere is hell-bent on letting the aviation and petroleum industry off the hook. The former is deeply concerned about the health effects of sulfate seeding, and even moreso with the PR fallout connected with it (this has been documented and posted, as well). And here comes Rense/Jones, et al. doing their level best to try and convince these people that maybe we are a bunch of knuckle-dragging submorons that haven't figured it out, after all.

I understand. I really do. They've got adspace to sell and listnernship numbers to pimp and the stupider and more sensationalistic you appear to be, the more Americans you are going to attract.

So. They want sensationalism? They want blood in the water? They're going to get it, becuase they have done absolutley nothing in the last three years to educate the masses and stop this idiocy. They rarely publish anything on the subject and when they do, it's complete rubbish.

They can spend hundreds of man hours on personal crusades for self-proclaimed Nazi's, but can't spend five minutes on this?

As I said, I've been patient. But this is the final insult to our collective intelligence I plan on enduring.

To the Industry, I have this to say. You were correct in your assessment that the people concerned with this geoengineering-for-profit scheme of yours are not a bunch inbred simpletons that are going to follow some pied piper off the cliffs of Dover. If you were worried about Top Ten artists drawing attention to 'all those lines in the atmosphere' or Presidential candidates yapping about chemtrails, you better prepare yourselves for what everyone knows is coming next.

Think of a cross between The Day After Tomorrow and Silkwood, and I can assure you it wont be barium releases that millions of people are going to be discussing after they walk out of the theater...

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Feb 23, 2006, 9:24am

I think the greatest insult in this matter is that there is an extensive body of documented research in this area now which the authoress apparently is unable to comprehend. I've noticed that some of the sites such as Rense and Prison Planet seem to be losing the plot - they are not much better than the mainstream media they try to distance themselves from.

If Rense is the No. 1 US conspiracy site it strikes me that Rense and others of similar ilk are conspiring to deny the innocents that which they seek - the Truth.

Another point that continues to irritate me is the seeming inability of many in this field to comprehend/understand the extent of the global phenomenon. Maybe it is because of living in Australia that we are attuned to the rest of the World so we tend to take a global view of issues and events. But that is no excuse for ignoring the rest of the World in favour of a limited report about a trail or two in your immediate vicinity. I used to think the point of the observations was about building a body of evidence but I'm not so sure now. I must confess that my blood boils when I see people rabbiting on about KC-130 Stratotankers being responsible for all the CTs. The extent of disinformation has been growing steadily since mid-2004.

Equally unlike the apparent breaks in spraying occurring overseas we on the Eastern coast of Australia are on the receiving end more often than not on a daily basis - the only question is the severity. So when I read of certain areas in the US and elsewhere being clear for a period of time whether it is days, weeks or months I must admit I am more than a little jealous. CTs and other curious aerial phenomena are now permanent features of the Australian landscape.

My final bitch for the moment is that I can't understand how it is that where samples have been obtained the appropriate testing has not been carried out. I find it more than just a little remarkable that people with the nous to set up and maintain websites cannot obtain the benefit of a chemical analysis.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Feb 24, 2006, 1:46am

Quote:

I've noticed that some of the sites such as Rense and Prison Planet seem to be losing the plot - they are not much better than the mainstream media they try to distance themselves from.

If Rense is the No. 1 US conspiracy site it strikes me that Rense and others of similar ilk are conspiring to deny the innocents that which they seek - the Truth.

Poetically stated.. and I can't help but be struck by the Shakespearean level of irony in Rense's current splash screen:

[image]

Rense is not unintelligent. He is a succesful radio personality and is keenly aware of the mistakes his rivals have made in the past that left him in the leadership position he now enjoys in the alternative-for-profit media. But perhaps it is time to refresh his memory on just how quickly the fortunes of war can change.

A brief trip back in time;

1.) Aspiring author boasts of 'working in intelligence' in the biography of his first published novel.

2.) Author hits #1 on the NYT bestseller list years later, and builds a following loyal and broad enough to entrench him as Art Bell's replacement on Coast-to-Coast AM.

3.) Author insults the intellignce and integrity of CT researchers by dismissing their concerns and efforts in his online journal.

3) Members of CT community discover the authors claims of 'intelligence work' and publicize these claims (much to the author/talk show hosts chagrin, given that he recently disavowed employment within the intelligence communuty).

4) One time big shot is replaced on Coast-to-Coast by a virtual unknown and is left to bitterly complain about how people have left even his website 'in droves'.

The rest is just a bunch of boring numbers and pie charts. No need to name names. You know who the principals were and to be perfectly honest, I could care less which talk show host is hiding behind which alphabet agencies coat tails, and who gets their dirty laundry aired and who gets rich.

Let me be even more plain-spoken. There are agencies that are capable of wreaking far more devastation on a personal and global level than your friends at Mossad. This planet is a living organism, it has a functional self-aware governing consciousness, and further still it has a spirit (for lack of a better term). You either are keenly aware of this simple fact or you are, just as keenly, not.

This consciousness is super pissed about what is going on up there (to put it mildly) and is already in a state of blinding grief and indescribable mourning over the unavoidable and looming retro-active abortion of the vast majority of those she considers her children. Imagine a mother's grief at losing a child.

Now multiply that times five billion.

Feel it?
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Stop.
Close your eyes.
Feel that?
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Anyone else? This is FC and everyone knows the rules. If you think I'm a few cans short of a six-pack then you can rip me up one side and out the other and laugh all the way back to the main forum (or your broadcast booth). Now's your chance.

Do you feel that?
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[image]

Maybe just barely. Maybe you never really noticed it before, or made any conscious attempt to quanitify it, but it's what compels us to do what what we do.

Even people like Hazel McKinlay feel it. It's why you see so many poorly researched, seemingly outlandish and yet deeply felt warnings about chemtrails being the engine of our destruction. People with more heart strings than synaptic connections, a dangerous and often fatal condition.

Extreme emotions, espescially negative ones, are a damn sorry substitute for the medothical application of human will furthered by unclouded reason and indisputable fact.... espescially when it comes to problem solving.

But if you can manage to combine the two, then you've solved the ancient riddle of Alchemy. And that's when things start to get interesting...

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 4, 2006, 3:50am

I'm starting to ask myself some hard questions about some of these self-described 'alternative media' kingpins and their inexplicable fondness for publishing neo-nazi propaganda (or holocaust 'revisionism' depending on where your sympathies lie).

One can prattle on about free speech all one wants to, but when one shamelessly and incessantly debases themselves by championing the cause of the people responsible for what is depicted below, then one does so at one's own risk.

Quote:

The "Holocaust" is a weak and flimsy ideology that needs special laws, threats of career destruction and jail sentences to protect it - Rense.com

See folks, the Nazi's weren't so bad after all.

Make no mistake folks... I'm no friend of people that crush our kids skulls under their bulldozers anymore than I am a friend of last centuries architects of murder and mayhem. Nor am I friend to the cowardly subhuman monsters that drop nuclear bombs (or 'depleted' urnaium) on civillian population centers. Nationality does not define morality... at least in this little corner of cyberspace.

Certainly these photographs depict nothing worse than the murder of tens of thousands of women and children in Iraq, the routine and indescriminant executions of Palestinians by the IDF and Mossad our our own off-shore concentration camps (and I do not use that term lightly).

What seperates the German National Socialists apart from the rest of the sociopathic and sadistic nationalist movements was the sheer scale of it (which is why the rensenazi's seem intent on arguing whether 1.5 or 2.5 million human beings were exterminated at Aushwitz and whether Zyklon-B or the firing squad was the preferred method of extermination).

Once you get past the smokescreens and infrotainment, the message being delivered appears to be that a certain level of genocide and military adventurism in the name of racial purity might just be acceptable, after all.

If someone can offer an alternative theory, I honestly need to hear it because I'm seeing a pattern emerging here that I find deeply troubling.

Short of publishing kiddie porn, Jeff Rense would be hard pressed to better discredit-by-association the laundry list of legitimate activists and truth movments he cozied up to.

In all of recorded history, I think it is fair to say that there is no one so universally and well-deservedly despised as the Nazi's.

The sleeper certainly appears to have awakened...

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by swampgas on Mar 16, 2006, 4:30pm

Jeff Rense constantly Publishes articles by the crackpot Henry Makow....You know him....The 60s, The Beatles, Gays, Liberals, Tim Leary, The Grateful Dead, Woman Liberation, Black Civil Rights, Pot Smoking, Environmentalists, and Vegetarians are all CIA/New World Order agents/plots. Makow says, "The New World Order Exists", and all of the honest people looking for answers on aerosol mitigation get waylayed by this zealot. Then we throw all of the different flavors of chemtrails into the mix (biologicals, HAARP, weather control, aliens, and Sky Shield), and people can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground anymore. To tell you the truth, a bunch of right-wing crazies have taken over legitimate research into shadow politics and geo-engineering. Who needs a Jay Reynolds when you have so much disinformation coming form the people that are supposed to be on the side of the "Little Guy/Gal"? Rense is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He is trying to keep the image of an alternative thinker, yet appease Right-Wing fanatics. Personally, I think he is OK, but when you go in two directions, the result is a tear in one's own consciousness. I understand that everyone is trying to nail down what the main function of Aerosol Mitigation is, and it is like trying to speculate how the next "terror attack" will occur. One has to use logic and intuition together. Too much of one or the other will give a false reading.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 20, 2006, 4:56am

Quote:

At the time I was considering doing this, Wayne put together Strategies Against Climate Change ..which I felt served and identical purpose and was extrememly well-done. I encouraged Wayne to submit the article, and it did in fact run on several of the larger sites like Rense.

Of course, I was hoping that a well-documented and researched article might turn a few heads and wet the appetites of the editors and webmasters of these sites, but they seem far more interested in sensationalistic rants than in any reality-based attempts at working the problem.

Somebody, somewhere is hell-bent on letting the aviation and petroleum industry off the hook. The former is deeply concerned about the health effects of sulfate seeding, and even moreso with the PR fallout connected with it (this has been documented and posted, as well). And here comes Rense/Jones, et al. doing their level best to try and convince these people that maybe we are a bunch of knuckle-dragging submorons that haven't figured it out, after all.

The only thing that may have been a little different about
Strategies against Climate Change was the more distanced stance on inputs like that from Jay Michaelson, which were already well and truly part of the general record and the move away from the petitioning stance in relation to politicians.

I don't think we should be making a target of people like Rense. It is Reynolds and his ilk that have to be removed from the debate. What they are doing is worse than flogging vulgar and unutilizable theories. They are actively making trouble between the two necessary components of a winning alliance: scientists and activists.

This is what underlay the difference of opinion we had here over David Stewart. I was in favour of
giving him the benefit of the doubt, not subjecting him to inquisitorial treatment just because we, and he, were under pressure from Reynolds.

But these days I think we are more or less in agreement over who has the best approach: the new weather modification activists in California and Canadian realpolitik activist sites like Air Apparent.

As for Nazis and holocaust revisionism, etc. I think we should lay off Rense and company on matters like this also. Consummating a divorce between US foreign policy and the state of Israel, in the interests of the population of both countries, and the planet as a whole, is an important objective of these times.

Every state has its founding myth. Israel's is the Holocaust. There is no logical connection between whether one supports Israel's right to exist and whether one signs on the dotted line to every last item of the conventional story on the Holocaust. It is absolutely outrageous that David Irving and others are sitting in prison for no other crime than their words and writings on this subject.

I believe that the demand for the denuclearisation of the Middle East, including Israel, the acceptance of Israel and the Palestinian territories as a member state of the European Union on the same terms as other member states, and freedom of historical inquiry on the subject of the Holocaust belong together as a package and if actively taken up would also greatly help us in other undertakings such as securing transparency on the subject of chemtrails and weather modification.

"Holocaust Denial" is the grandaddy of all the stigmatized conspiracy theories. If the stigma could be removed from it by detaching it from hostility to the state of Israel, we would see ourselves making progress on all the less difficult fronts also.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 20, 2006, 10:15am

The objective of the nuclear-weapons-free Middle East can be supported via:
http://acdn.france.free.fr/spip/article.php3?id_article=136&lang=LANG

Get in touch with the signatories closest to you. And fill out the ACDN form.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 21, 2006, 2:17pm

Holocaust:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shamireaders/message/687

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 24, 2006, 4:03am

The intentional mis-characterization of atmopsheric sulfate seeding as some 'stigmatized conspiracy theory' is part and parcel of the problem I have with the publication of transparent absurdities like Rense and Jones are responsible for.

Much like Israel's Nuclear WMD's, the seeding program and policy does not 'officialy' exist either. How either debate can be furthered by crawling into bed with Nazi's and their apologists is far beyond my humble imaginitive abilities, I'm afraid.

I also have a hard time fathoming how anyone can look upopn the images I posted and decide that what is depicted is not unequivocal evidence of the widespread and systematic murder and torture of a race deemed undesirable.

Let's say say all the 'historical revisionists' are correct in their estimates and thank them right now for clearing the fog from our addled brains while we accept the rock-bottom figure of two million jews exterminated, murdered or gently released from the surly bonds of earth by their attentive National Socialist caretakers.

Now what? What point have you made? What dilemma have you solved? What mystery uncovered? What literal truth?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 24, 2006, 4:12am

...and as for Junior, well, it has never been my attention to remove him from the debate. He serves a much higher purpose now (BTw... thanx for the linky, Mike).

Why drive when one can be driven?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 24, 2006, 8:00am

Quote:

The intentional mis-characterization of atmopsheric sulfate seeding as some 'stigmatized conspiracy theory' is part and parcel of the problem I have with the publication of transparent absurdities like Rense and Jones are responsible for.

Much like Israel's Nuclear WMD's, the seeding program and policy does not 'officialy' exist either. How either debate can be furthered by crawling into bed with Nazi's and their apologists is far beyond my humble imaginitive abilities, I'm afraid.

I also have a hard time fathoming how anyone can look upopn the images I posted and decide that what is depicted is not unequivocal evidence of the widespread and systematic murder and torture of a race deemed undesirable.

Let's say say all the 'historical revisionists' are correct in their estimates and thank them right now for clearing the fog from our addled brains while we accept the rock-bottom figure of two million jews exterminated, murdered or gently released from the surly bonds of earth by their attentive National Socialist caretakers.

Now what? What point have you made? What dilemma have you solved? What mystery uncovered? What literal truth?

Some of the new people we've got coming to "chemtrails" activism in Greece are people who have learned what they have learned from David Icke, Liakopoulos (who is something like a Greek Rense) and so on.

Who cares? Steer them in the right direction. Bring them on board.

Bring the "Holocaust deniers" onboard also.

It is not they who are jailing those who disagree with them.

Until recently, when they put David Irving in prison, my connection with "Holocaust denial" went no further than admiration for the writings of Carl Schmitt, whose analysis of "liberal democracy" I found cogent, penetrating and convincing. Hitler lost Schmitt when he invaded the Soviet Union.

Leftist writers such as Chantal Mouffe have expressed similar, though qualified, admiration for Carl Schmitt.
Schmitt was married to a Serb, and always thought that Serbia had got a raw deal from the Germans and Austrians.

Could anyone actually try to stick the anti-Semitic label on me? I want to see Israel a full member-state of the European Union.

Anyway, to use Jay Reynolds language, if they want to try ........ BRING IT ON!!!!

The Holocaust is not my subject and I don't intend to be diverted from what I think is important and what I want to talk about.

But I would like those who want to talk about the Holocaust to be free to do so without having to fear that they will end up in prison if they say what they believe.

There are many explanations for the pictures you see above that don't depend on the thesis of there having been gas chambers at Auschwitz to exterminate the Jews. That, after all, is the central point at issue in the "Holocaust" non-debate.

The foreign policy of the Nazis has already been implemented to the letter in Eastern Europe by NATO since the so-called end of the Cold War. Why should I waste moral indignation on the dead Nazis of the past rather than on the alive anti-Nazi Nazis of the present, who want to make both Communist and Nazi theorizing illegal.

Look at the twentieth century as a whole, and think about whether the present world would indeed have been worse if the Germans had won the First World War.

Read William Engdahl's "A Century of War" to connect with today's imminent oil crisis.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 24, 2006, 2:43pm

You could have fifty million David Icke reading, reptoid whacking disgruntled citizens yowling about the sorry state of the atmoshphere and it wouldn't do a damn thing to slow down the petro/aviation/pentagon juggernaut.

Fifty million educated, informed and digruntled citizens might not do the trick either, but the odds are a heckuva lot better. Didn't someone once say 'educate the masses' (as opposed to entertaining them to death)?

The CT community is a shadow of it's former self and what's left has been spinning it's wheels for years. I attribute that decline directly to the proliferation of minsinformation and sensationalistic nonsense on the subject. At the end of the day, I discovered that was far more detrimental to resolving the problem than any of the games the psuedo-debunkers used to play.

I know it's not your favorite topic, but one need only look at the at the alphabet agencies documented infiltration of the ufology community to learn a lesson here. They did an admirable job of turning the grave question of who's doing what in our 'controlled airspace' into tabloid fodder. While the vast majority of Americans are finally now of the opinion that these objects are nonterrestrial in origin and intelligent in design, it's still just that... opinion (when the facts of the matter should have been openly discussed half-a-century ago).

Regardless, you didn't answer my original question Halva. For the sake of arguement, I will accept any and all revisions regarding Aushwitz, Zyklon-B, children being catalogued and starved to death, horrific medial experimentation and everything else documented above.

Again, I ask, What now? What is your point?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 25, 2006, 2:14am

My point is that one should attack, remove and politically annihilate, Reynolds, not Rense.

Reynolds is a minor personification of the hegemonic cabal of American and Israeli criminals that has to be split up by self-respecting US and Israeli citizens as a prerequisite for reform of anything.

It is a disgrace to all of us for how many years he has managed to get away with his exploitation of the political timidity of scientists and the social timidity of activists. He plays on scientists' fear of "contamination" by the populism of a Rense.

Why is it that Reynolds has persisted in describing Chem 11 as his "buddy"? It cannot be just a matter of whether chemtrails contain aluminium or sulphates.

He must be responding to that indulgence towards him that Chem frankly confesses to.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 25, 2006, 4:45am

I was of course referring to whatever point it is that the holocaust revisionists are attempting to make.

It's not Rense's populism that creates a kind fear of contamination in the minds of some people; it's his perplexing empathy for the morally bankrupt and demostrably foolish, and his terror-stricken avoidance of substantative research and activism.

Scientists will always be keenly aware of who's buttering their bread, but I've seen very little timidity when it comes to activists (checkbook organizations like Greenpeace and The Sierra Club nonwithstanding).

You want to fight chemtrails, fight chemtrails. You want to fight Reynolds, I'll buy you a ticket to Arkansas myself. I just don't see the point in that either (aside from entertainment value).

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Mar 25, 2006, 8:50pm

Quote:

My point is that one should attack, remove and politically annihilate, Reynolds, not Rense.

I do not understand why you believe that you must elevate this Reynolds creature beyond his station in life. He is a nothing and ought to be ignored. You cannot have a healthy debate with a moron.

Quote:

Reynolds is a minor personification of the hegemonic cabal of American and Israeli criminals that has to be split up by self-respecting US and Israeli citizens as a prerequisite for reform of anything.

Out of curiosity do you honestly believe that if you remove the alleged �hegemonic cabal of American and Israeli criminals� you will solve the World�s problems? If you do then I am afraid that you are sadly mistaken. The problem per se does not relate to State boundaries or nationalities � the problem lies with a state of mind. Sincerely I wish that your simplistic view of the World was the essence of the problem that we face.

Quote:

It is a disgrace to all of us for how many years he has managed to get away with his exploitation of the political timidity of scientists and the social timidity of activists. He plays on scientists' fear of "contamination" by the populism of a Rense.

Again I reiterate that you are elevating Reynolds beyond his station. At some point in the future you will realize that the best way to deal with Reynolds is to do to him what I do to you � and you know what I mean.

Quote:

Why is it that Reynolds has persisted in describing Chem 11 as his "buddy"? It cannot be just a matter of whether chemtrails contain aluminium or sulphates.

He must be responding to that indulgence towards him that Chem frankly confesses to.

And it might be because Reynolds is baiting all and sundry.

Halva get a grip. Not everyone ascribes to your political bent and quite frankly I for one can�t take the risk of being involved in your version of activism. Our laws in Australia are now so draconian that the type of activism you advocate is liable to be held to be in breach of anti-terrorism legislation. However irrespective of this little problem not all of us see this global problem in terms of political activism. In fact I sincerely doubt that you will achieve anything concrete by your political activism. The problem isn�t with the politicians per se its in another part of the food chain which has persisted despite all the changes of government across the planet.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 26, 2006, 1:52am

Quote:

Did you edit your post to add that little zinger? Why yes, it appears you have... you know Wayne, there *is* a reply button... no need to be so sneaky!

Indulgences? Please be more specific, Wayne. About the only indulgence I can offer anyone these days is the right to speak their minds on thes humble little outpost of open-minded critical thinking, and Mr. Reynolds is one of the few people that has had the priviledge revoked.

If I'm 'indulging' his nonsesne, you gotta wonder how my patience with certain other controversial characters is being perceived.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 27, 2006, 12:29pm

Here are some interesting quotes from Tim Flannery's book "The Weather Makers":
http://www.theweathermakers.com/

"By the 1980s the problem of global warming loomed so large that industry, and even some scientists, began casting about for engineering solutions. Here we are talking about true planetary engineering - changing the carbon balance on planet Earth in ways that will affect every living organism - and yet these engineering works were being proposed and tested in the absence of any global body to regulate and approve such activities.

For this reason, and because of an inherent distrust of such solutions, the response of most environmental groups to these initiatives has been lukewarm at best. Yet all would agree that we are facing a dire crisis that may require heroic actions to overcome."

The Weather Makers, Tim Flannery (Chapter 27)

More from "The Weather Makers":

"Air travel requires large amounts of high-density fuel of a type that at present only fossil fuels provide. It is also increasing in volume every year. In 1992 air travel was the source of two percent of carbon dioxide emissions. And in the US, where air traffic already accounts for 10 percent of fuel use, the number of passengers transported is expected to double between 1997 and 2017, making air transport the fastest-growing source of carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide emissions in the country. Across the Atlantic, by 2030, a quarter of the UK's emissions may come from air travel.

The cocktail of chemicals that comprise aircraft emissions work in somewhat opposite ways. Because most modern jets cruise near the troposphere, the water vapour, nitrous oxide and sulphur dioxides they emit have particular impacts. The nitrous oxide emitted by aircraft may enhance ozone in the troposphere and lower stratosphere, yet deplete it further in the upper stratosphere; sulphur dioxide will have a cooling effect.

What is emerging as a most important emission is water vapour, which can be observed as aircraft contrails. Under certain conditions contrails give rise to cirrus clouds. These clouds cover around 30 percent of the planet, and while the extent that aircraft contribute to cirrus cloud cover is uncertain, it could be as much as 1 percent which, because it is concentrated in the Northern Hemisphere mid-latitudes, may have a significant impact on climate. If aircraft were to fly lower, cirrus cloud formation could be cut in half and carbon dioxide emissions lowered by four percent, while average flight times in Europe would vary by less than a minute.

As mentioned earlier, the potential of these clouds to affect climate was demonstrated in 2001 between September 11 and 14, when the US air fleet was grounded. Average daytime temperatures rose abruptly by one degree Celsius, in such a manner as could not be explained by other factors. This suggests that contrails may be masking the impacts of warming caused by carbon dioxide. Perhaps we will need to main them while we reduce our carbon intensity. Equally, there seems to be no way at present to get aircraft to run on a less damaging substitute or fossil fuel. Without a return to the more leisurely days of travel by zeppelin, air travel will remain a source of carbon dioxide emissions long after other sectors have transformed to a carbon-free economy.

Transport accounts for around a third of global carbon dioxide emissions. Transportation by land and sea can easily be powered in ways that emit less carbon dioxde, and the technologies to achieve this either already exist or are on the horizon. Air transport, however, is fast growing and not likely to be fuelled by anything but fossil fuels. Thankfully, jet contrails contribute to global dimming, so it may be just as well that the jets keep flying long after wind-powered and solar-powered ships and compressed-air cars monopolise surface transport." (from Chapter 31)

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 27, 2006, 3:20pm

That's more like it.

Quote:

If aircraft were to fly lower, cirrus cloud formation could be cut in half and carbon dioxide emissions lowered by four percent

According to my calculations, CO2 emissions would increase slightly and depending upon altitude, so I'm interested in how Flannery arrived at a CO2 decrease.

Less altitude=less fuel efficiency=more C02 emissions... unless I'm missing something (and I hope I am).

By the by, Whitley seems to be mounting something of a comeback lately. He interviewed Scott Stevens recently and the archived broadcast is still up...

http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 27, 2006, 10:27pm

Chem, Reynolds has his back to the wall at Arianna's and currently the strongest weapon he is employing is you as "his buddy".
http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=532650&postcount=445

Your dissociating yourself from this claim (preferably THERE not here), explaining why you do not allow Reynolds to post at Megasprayer, could make the difference between our finally emancipating the discussion from this individual or failing yet again to do so.

I hope you do not imagine that Reynolds is helping you in any way in countering the political effect of a Rense. You must realise that their two inputs are symbiotic.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 28, 2006, 12:30pm

All this is of course a rerun of what happened at CTC around three years ago, where the Council vote on the policy I was proposing for dealing with chemtrails debunkers was lost because of abstention by Chem 11.

Chem's vote on its own would have produced a tie, not a majority, but it may have encouraged other fence-sitters to commit themselves also.

At that time Chem's justification for his abstention was absence owing to professional obligations.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 28, 2006, 12:54pm

There is other relevant input, namely this posting:
http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=532932&postcount=1067

plus what I assume is Reynolds' response to it.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Mar 28, 2006, 1:42pm

Wayne, it is a significant discourtesy to speak of another in the third person as you have done in regard to Chem in this thread. The fact that you are "spitting the dummy" over your loss at CTC is really irrelevant. The issue is getting the right message across - there is no room for ego.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 28, 2006, 6:29pm

Quote:

the Council vote on the policy I was proposing for dealing with chemtrails debunkers was lost because of abstention by Chem 11.

Thermit had the final say, not the council, and there's no way your measure would have been enforced even if everyone voted and the way you wanted. Your measure lost laregely because it was heavy-handed and Draconian (even to the people who had been victims of lilbel and cyberstalking at the hands of fantical psuedo-sceptics) and moreso because you somehow managed to alienate the entire council, as I recall.

Quote:

The issue is getting the right message across

Exactamundo. I have precious little free time at my disposal, and what I do have I intend to spend on a course of action that is most liable to produce visible results. Reynolds' disingenuos, nonsensensical stone-age arguements and state of mind pose virtually no threat to that objective. The debate over whether climate manipulation/sulfate seeding exists ended years ago.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 28, 2006, 10:59pm

Quote:

The issue is getting the right message across

Quote:

It may have ended for you, but the fact is that there are continually new people coming to this issue, and whenever someone who looks like an opinion leader - or even just motivated not to give up - becomes visible, Reynolds is on to them, and he often succeeds in hounding them into apathy and inactivity.

For the general public, such as those hundreds of people at Arianna's, the debate has not ended. It has not even begun.

You have built your fortress here, whose most active inhabitant is Big Bunny. He is not a chemtrails debunker, but he does exercise a somewhat discouraging influence on action-oriented posting.

This makes Megasprayer less than completely satisfactory as a place of refuge from the likes of Reynolds.

And is building a refuge what is really needed?

In the meantime, outside the refuge, Reynolds goes around parading you as his "buddy".

By the way, Chem, you aren't by any chance the "Gotcha" who has begun to intervene at Arianna's, are you?
http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=533697&postcount=449

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 28, 2006, 11:10pm

Just as an afterthought on the CTC Council, a dead horse which it is not really worth flogging any more, there was significant minority support for what I was trying to do, and active (strong) opposition only really from one person.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 28, 2006, 11:20pm

Quote:

By the way, Chem, you aren't by any chance the "Gotcha" who has begun to intervene at Arianna's, are you?
http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=533697&postcount=449

Sorry about this question, Chem. I have now been to CTC and see where the text comes from. It would not be your style just to post what someone else has written.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 28, 2006, 11:26pm

But since you were kind enough to supply the link, let me take the opportunity (once again) to stick my greedy paws into Deborah's Research and Cookie jar for this tasty little morsel:

"..Governments in Europe and Britain "where jets also hash mark the sky" are becoming concerned.. Some steps that could cut down on contrails, he suggests, would be reducing the amount of sulfur in jet fuel, and re-routing flight paths either to lower altitudes, where the air is warmer, or higher altitudes, where it's often dryer

http://www.rps.psu.edu/probing/contrails.html

So says Penn State University. They also say:

"Given the financial problems of the larger airlines in recent years, contrails are not likely to gain their attention"

Meaning they are liable to continue crap all over our skies and glorify this avionic excrement as some sort of environmentally friendly solar shield as long as they think are making a buck by doing it.

Wann know how you get their attention? PAC's, NGO's and a small army of lobbyists with an an Aviation Smog bill and a grip of money stuffed into their Italian briefcases.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 29, 2006, 12:34am

I am in no way opposed to this approach being pursued in parallel with the activist orientation of marginalizing individuals like Reynolds.

I think Deborah, for example, is largely in favour of the kind of approach you suggest.

But she also actively supported the line I was advocating at CTC. And she favours banning Reynolds from Arianna's.

It is not only you and Big Bunny who want to be "above" arguing with Reynolds. Boomer Chick at Arianna's also tries to be "above" the fray. At the same time taking every opportunity to try to involve Reynolds in debate and attack everyone who says he should be removed.

But her efforts meet with no response from Reynolds other than patronising recommendations for her to grow up.

Other people just go away. Even Arianna finally deserted her own forum, to start another venue where people don't want to talk about 'chemtrails'.

And Tracker and the people around him, such as SmT, CDsNutz, Louis Aubuchont, Gotcha, Ruebin, Arcturus and others, eventually console themselves with sarcasm and humour.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 29, 2006, 3:03am

Quote:

Even Arianna finally deserted her own forum, to start another venue where people don't want to talk about 'chemtrails'.

Yeah, good luck on that one. Maybe she can start one where people don't want to talk about George Clooney, either.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 29, 2006, 3:23am

The point in the Flannery postings that I focus on is not your technical one of whether carbon dioxide levels go up or down but this one:

"Air transport, however, is fast growing and not likely to be fuelled by anything but fossil fuels. Thankfully, jet contrails contribute to global dimming, so it may be just as well that the jets keep flying long after wind-powered and solar-powered ships and compressed-air cars monopolise surface transport."

Though not speaking about deliberate use of contrails to cause global dimming (though he has touched on other forms of geoengineering such as carbon sequestration and fertilisation of the oceans with iron), Tim Flannery here expresses gratitude for the same phenomena for which you are expressing rage.

This would seem to be a good point of departure for discussion, and in fact through a mutual acquaintance of Flannery and myself I am indeed trying to initiate a discussion.

As an Australian, Big Bunny - if he had a different attitude generally - might also be able to play a role in engaging Tim Flannery. But that is idle speculation, no?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 29, 2006, 4:04am

Sulfate seeding results in a net warming effect, due to the insulation effect. This has been studied and documented time and again.

Creating artificial cloud cover when one could just as easily (and according to Flannery, more cheaply) not create them certainly satisfies the defination of 'deliberate' in my dictionary;

de�lib�er�ate
adj.

1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects

The aviation industry (and Penn State and everyone but the contrail propagandists from NASA) admit that high sulfate levels create chemical trails and Pollution Clouds. They know they create acid rain and they know they causes global dimming and they know they increase global warming.

I guess the soothsayers are going to have to re-define 'deliberate' the same way they are trying to re-define 'cirrus cloud' to mean man-made pollution to keep their arguements from becoming utterly ludicrous.

OT, but I'm beginning to think we're preaching to the wrong choir. We had 700,000 Mexicans and Mexican-Americans marching in downtown LA last saturday. School walkouts. Work walkouts. They've marched every day since and they'll march manana. All because Congress is talking about building a damn fence on the border...

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 29, 2006, 4:11am

[image]

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 29, 2006, 4:38am

Creating artificial cloud cover when one could just as easily (and according to Flannery, more cheaply) not create them certainly satisfies the definition of 'deliberate' in my dictionary;

de�lib�er�ate
adj.

1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects

It seems that your dictionary is not the one that counts. What does Bodansky say? (His word is "intentional", not "deliberate")..

Bodansky defines geoengineering as large-scale, intentional efforts to change the climate system. Climate engineering proposals include those aimed at removing GHGs from the atmosphere, for example, through afforestation or iron fertilization of plankton in the oceans and those aimed at screening out sunlight by injecting aerosols into the atmosphere to create cloud condensation nuclei and hence more clouds...."

Problematic features include the fact that it is intentional (and thus attracts greater scrutiny)....
The fact that geoengineering is an intentional activity with global effects raises the issue of who should decide whether to proceed. Should all countries be able to participate in decision making since all will be affected and there will be both positive and negative impacts? Also, how should liability and compensation for damages be addressed?

Schemes to inject dust or release balloons into the atmosphere are the most problematic of the geoengineering proposals in terms of existing international law because the atmosphere above a country, including the stratosphere, is part of its air space. Nations have claimed this area and acted on their claims (e.g., by shooting down aircraft). Geoengineering proposals involving the atmosphere thus could be viewed as an infringement and incursion on national territory.

The ultimate obstacles to geoengineering may not be technical or economic, but may instead be political."

Why is Tim Flannery happy to see artificial cloud cover being created?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 29, 2006, 6:20am

Quote:

It seems that your dictionary is not the one that counts. What does Bodansky say? (His word is "intentional", not "deliberate")

de�lib�er�ate Audio pronunciation of "deliberate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-lbr-t)
adj.

1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=deliberate

English is my first language, Halva. No need to translate.

Quote:

The fact that geoengineering is an intentional activity with global effects raises the issue of who should decide whether to proceed.

Which is an an issue you'd most likely want to avoid, if you didn't did wan't the general populaton forming an unfavorable opionon or otherwise influencing decision making, let alone actually deciding "whether to actually proceed".

Quote:

Also, how should liability and compensation for damages be addressed?

Bodansky is really rasing some troubling and potentially expensive questions here. The kind of questions better left unasked. Thank the stars for our lack of 'intentionality.'

[image]

Whoops, sorry! These things just seem to somehow happen all by themselves (and they're great for combating 'global brightness', too)!

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Mar 30, 2006, 12:15am

After weeks of heavy jet fuel seeding culminated in a torrential downpour and flash flooding here in LA, many of us we're eager to greet the day this morning, and it didn't disappoint. In fact the weather was so beautiful the broadcast team over at 103.1 FM couldn't help but point out how clear the skies were. They also were kind enough to point out to their listeners that the 'they have been seeding' the atmosphere (in an appropriately hushed and conspiratorial tone, of course).

There are days when it is truly good to be alive.

[image]

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 30, 2006, 4:03am

Chem, any comments on this? As a person who shares Los Angeles with Arianna Huffington and her ex-forum??

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/th....e2a44e57ec9695b

(30th March: [under the misleading heading, Reynolds is passe] From "Tracker": "As to whether or not John Boyd Reynolds, Jr. is removed from the Arianna Online Forums, it is my sincere hope that those seeking to have him removed succeed in that effort as he has proven beyond doubt that he is a very sick and abusive individual. Hopefully the moderators at Arianna Online Forums will weigh in favor of his removal for the general good of the forum."

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 30, 2006, 7:54am

If Arianna's forum were in Athens, I would long ago have gone to talk with this "Lib".

First check this out:
http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=40319

Some weeks ago "Lib" asked me this question.
"Did you notice this?"

(An article on climate change. I hope the URL hasn't changed with the change in Arianna's forum)
Originally Posted by Lib
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=39762

I answered:

"No, I didn't. I suppose there must be many different factors involved in climate change.

Footsoldier is much better informed than I am on the scientific aspect of these matters and better equipped to discuss the science of it.

Whatever the reasons for climate change, "mitigation" programmes have been proposed for the alleged purposes of dealing with it, and this has been done without any informed public discussion and with a secrecy that was once reserved for issues of "national security".

The "climate change" debate between "sceptics" and "believers" is a red herring and a diversion from the above reality.

These matters have begun to be taken up publicly in California, in a spirit very different from that of "conspiracy theory":

http://www.airapparent.ca/activitie...protest2006.htm

Arianna Huffington should stop ignoring questions of this kind. Is she going to express public support for Rosalind Peterson?
WH"

"Lib" replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lib
Thank you for the info. Who is footsoldier?

I answered:
Her name is Deborah. She posts at Arianna's in the 'Science in the News' section.

WH

Person-to-person communication of this kind gets lost in the pandemonium of low-level raving that predominates at Arianna's ex-forum. And Reynolds capitalises on this.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Mar 30, 2006, 8:39am

Reynolds has mounted his defence at Arianna's:

http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=40091&page=2

(scroll down)

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Apr 1, 2006, 8:20pm

Quote:

As an Australian, Big Bunny - if he had a different attitude generally - might also be able to play a role in engaging Tim Flannery. But that is idle speculation, no?

I note your criticism - either enlighten me or apologise!

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 3, 2006, 2:03am

Big Bunny, if you can find a way of talking to Tim Flannery, raise the subject of "chemtrails" with him, and then enlighten US. Tell us what he says.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Apr 3, 2006, 9:24am

I'll see what I can do but I can't make any promises at the present time because I'm waiting for the results of blood tests at the moment which will determine my future.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 3, 2006, 12:59pm

Are you ill?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by bigbunny on Apr 3, 2006, 7:18pm

I have a disease which is similar in effect to MS without the remissions - it is described as a form of neuropathy. It is slowly devouring my Central Nervous System although of late it has become quite aggressive for reasons we can't fathom. Ergo the usual 25-year prognosis has been shortened considerably. One feature of the disease is that it simulates symptoms of other diseases without the presence of the same - try having all the symptoms of meningitis without actually having meningitis.

The disease's main impact of late is that it has depressed organ functions. The cause is unknown and there is no treatment for it other than pain control.

Short answer to your question: Yes most definitely.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 3, 2006, 9:18pm

Sorry to hear about it.

Take care of yourself, and peace.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 11, 2006, 3:45am

Quote:

After weeks of heavy jet fuel seeding culminated in a torrential downpour and flash flooding here in LA, many of us we're eager to greet the day this morning, and it didn't disappoint. In fact the weather was so beautiful the broadcast team over at 103.1 FM couldn't help but point out how clear the skies were. They also were kind enough to point out to their listeners that the 'they have been seeding' the atmosphere (in an appropriately hushed and conspiratorial tone, of course).

There are days when it is truly good to be alive.

[image]

Chem, I say again that if those two characters at ex-Arianna's. Mike and Lib, lived in my city, I would long ago have paid them a visit.

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=541118#post541118

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=40640

I have Mike's private e-mail (unless he has changed it).

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Apr 16, 2006, 12:44pm

[image]

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 18, 2006, 3:59am

Quote:

Quote:

Chem do you see why (or at least one reason why) you have not been able to get me to take an interest in Unidentified Flying Objects?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Apr 18, 2006, 10:32pm

I have to admit to losing the plot somwhere on the last page, Halva (or losing interest in off-topic posts, anyway).

As for the Space Brothers, I really have no desire in peaking anyone's interest in the subject, honestly. As shark-infested as the CT community's territorial waters are, ufology makes it look like the kiddie pool. CIA. FBI. FSB.... Murder. Mayhem. Soap.

And that's just in our little link on the food chain.

Swim at your own risk.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Apr 26, 2006, 5:28am

Hazel Heald has replied to all this, albeit at CTC where Reynolds re-published my relevant posts (for reasons I'm not sure I entirely understand).

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread10535.html

I figured the least I owed here was a relpy, though I'm not sure what kind of constructive dialogue can occur with someone who flatly claims to be 'misinformed' and a 'rank amateur' on the chemtrail issue.

So much for that. Now what I'd like to know is why Rense/Jones Inc. is pimping obvious absurdities by self-proclaimed 'misinformed rank-amateurs'. Will Alex issue a retraction? Continue to publish red herrings and minsformation? Will Jeff try and make up for past mis-deeds by publishing something quasi-intelligent on the subject? Will he complete his sexual re-assingment surgery and run of to Germany to marry Ernest Zundel?

Will I ever spell check my work?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 27, 2006, 9:05am

Reynolds re-publishes your writing because he thinks of you as "his buddy".

I don't care about the rest of them. I'm not in dialogue with them and, unlike Reynolds, they have not come looking for me.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Apr 27, 2006, 10:28pm

Then you are basing your decisons upon the emotional manipulations of others, rather than identifying what needs to be done and doing it. Reynolds audience is a bit more limted in scope than Rense and Jones, wouldn't you say? But by making it personal he has elevated his importance in your mind to the exclusion of people that are influencing hundreds of thousands of readers a day.

And, no, Uncle Jay doesn't think of me as his 'buddy' anymore than I think of him as my 'uncle'.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all this, but I strongly suspect we will see similar 'discredit-by-association' tactics being used against other hot-button issues and activists. Illegal immigration is the thing right now. Pretty much anyone besides the politicians (and who isn't harboring illegals in their garage) here in LA is all for putting a stop to turning Los Angles into a third world nation, and the Minutmen are becoming a credible political force. Look for Rense to start dragging the least credible fringe elements to put a stop to it. Neo-nazis, people claiming that it's all a plot by the Elders of Zion, people that make our president look like a cunning linguist... all that.

I'll wager a gallon of gas... any takers?

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by halvaa on Apr 28, 2006, 12:42pm

I believe in analysing and countering the emotional manipulations of others, not in ignoring them.

Reynolds wants to play chess. I play.

Any comments on
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=40107&page=2&pp=10

and on
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=40107&page=3&pp=10

We cannot compete with the big players in terms of quantity, only in terms of quality.

Re: The Gloves Are Coming Off Again
Post by admin on Apr 28, 2006, 3:24pm

Well, that seems a bit at odds with...

Quote:

Not arguing with Reynolds is precisely what I advocate, and practise.

Know here's a statement based on a history little less ambivalent (and on-topic):

Quote:

We should not underestimate the extent to which the oil lobby funded climate change sceptics can intimidate climate scientists and activists by brandishing the �conspiracy theorist� label.

Since the University of California's activities are coming into question, the following shoud proveto be quite enlightening... espescially with regards to the long-term health effects of aerosol seeding. For instance, did you know that said aerosols are capable of interacting with their human hosts on a cellular level? Neither did I...

http://dalton.hosted.ats.ucla.edu/nanoaerosol_workshop/report.pdf